Repost from a helicopter pilot: Has anyone seen the recent passage of SB 3447: The Post-9/11 Educational Assistance Improvement Act of 2010? For those of us in the helicopter flight training industry might need to consider what this says.
It looks like the Post-9/11 G.I. Bill will now possible prevent students from using their educational benefits at many flight schools. The flight schools that are eligible for veterans to use their benefits will only be allotted $17,500 in ONE year if they are an Institution of Higher Learning and approved by that state's State Approving Agency. This cuts out big schools like Embry-Riddle. How are people in the industry planning on dealing with this?
Please post your comments and opinions below, thanks!
20 comments:
While this will cause a burden on the students there is the Yellow Ribbon program that can be used to off set the diffrence, while I do not go to a flight school this change is effecting me as well, I go to Devry which costs around $8K a semester, I look at this 17,500 cap and think that they did not take into consideration those of us that go year round Like myself I go 3 semesters a year (16 weeks each) VS the traditional 2 semesters a year, as it stands I will have to come up with around 6,500 a year to go year round, but will they still pay the BAH to the students, or will they stop the payment of BAH after they reach the tuition cap that is in place.
Thanks woobr1 for your experience. If you know of any flight training vets, pass on this article. We would like their input as well! Good luck.
Facebook post from a Veteran Flight Student: "I'm one of these students that is currently going to Embry-Riddle for helicopter training. I will not have my training or degree completed when the new revisions take effect. All of the vets at ERAU Prescott are very concerned with these changes. I am planning on petitioning to Congress about having schools apply to get funding for training or grandfathering us in. The latter would screw people getting ready to get out to pursue flight training. The bill will only cover 60% if IRS not a part of your degree program (the same regs as the Montgomery GI Bill)"
I too am an Embry Riddle flight student. I moved to Prescott from Albuquerque on good faith that the existing GI bill benefits would be there through the duration of my time at ERAU. Now, I am forced with a tough reality. Plan to abandon my dream of becoming a Embry-Riddle trained pilot, or plan for a life of crippling debt. I'm not giving up hope yet though. I know the university has all their veterans best interests in mind. I'm sure they will find a way of allowing their almost 200 veterans a way to continue their education. Just to clarify, ERAU is around $12000-14000 per semester. On top of that, flight students incur $15000 in "fees" every semester to pay for their flying. The $17500 per year allotted by the new GI bill basically puts ERAU out of reach for all but the most wealthy of Americans. I did 6 years in the Air Force as a boom operator on a KC-10A. I flew over 130 combat missions over Iraq and Afghanistan. ERAU has always been my dream. Now, due to an oversight, that dream is in jeopardy. I urge anyone who has the time to write their Congressman/Senator/Newspaper to raise awareness of this issue and to hopefully force some kind of solution. Thanks for your time. Thanks to Fly Prescott for bringing attention to this issue.
Public institutions such as Yavapai College will not be affected by SB 3447. The Yavapai College Helicopter Program should fair well in this change. So long as you get in quickly before the programs fill up, You can transfer your benefit from the Private University and obtain ratings all the way through CFI-I. And quickly I might add. It takes little more than a year and a half. I'd then consider going back to a public 4 year institution and finish up. At least the costly part of the education, helicopter flight, is covered by the post 911 benefit.
Thank you Veterans for our freedom!!!!
Hey Veterans!!!- Yavapai College has NOT been adversely impacted by 3447.
I just finished my third semester at Yavapai. I started with no flight experience and now hold my Private Pilot certificate with an Instrument Rating and I am SFAR qualified to PIC both the R22 and The R44. Two more semesters and I will hold my Commercial, CFI and CFI-I and be qualified to teach in R22 and R44s This program rocks!!! I plan to finish college (my B of S degree at the World Wide Campus online) while working as a flight instructor at the beginning of next year. Thanks Guidance!
SB 3447 is not a show stopper for those who want a college education and to obtain their flight certificates. This VA benefit is a tremendous opportunity, do not give up on your dreams. Public institutions are not capped by this bill. Start at a community college with a flight program and transfer when you finish the AS degree to the 4 year institution. Besides, spreading your flight training out over 4 years is not effective. Trust me on this, buckle down, focus and complete your flight training quickly. Stretching it out increases costs, burns up more benefit and impedes your likelyhood for success. Besides, who needs upper level classes while you are trying to focus on a flight program. Learn this stuff as if your life will depend on it one day because......IT WILL!!!!!!!
Gaylin Swibold Maghupoy wrote: "I can't comment on the blog since my phone won't load the captcha. But this is my response:
Some of us completed all our lower level classes before coming to ERAU. I've only got 300 and 400 level classes left. I've got an AA, and I have 1.5 ...years before I get my BS. I've thought about Yavapi, I guess we'll have to see if anything gets changed. :)"
In addition to the multitude of concerns regarding the benefits paid out to the flight students, there are several other items that students using the GI Bill need to be aware of. Since we have only seen the first interpretation of this bill, you can expect that several things will change between now and August 1st. Until then, however, lets take a peak a few of the other things that are affected.
1) Kickers, or the College Fund Payments, are now paid out on a monthly basis rather than one lump some.
2) You can now use the benefit for multiple licensing and certification tests...including written and practical exams for pilots certificates.
3) Break pay, or that pay that you would be given over things such as Christmas break, are no longer availiable. This means that you will not have this money when you take breaks from school for holidays.
4) Your Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH) now is dependant on your course load. If you are less than full time status, you now will recieve a portion of your BAH according the number of credits taken vs. the number of credits required to be full time. This means if your school stipulates that full-time status is 12 credits or more, but you are taking 9 credits, you will get only 75% of your BAH (9/12=.75 or 75%). If your BAH is normally $1000, it will now be 75% of that, or $750.
Lastly, of course, the flight training aspect of this. As everyone said, only the private schools are affected. However, you need to consider the public schools that you are considering. Because the GI Bill benefit is usable for only 36 months, you need to find a school that can get your all of your required pilot certificates in the remaining portion of your benefit. This means, you need to find an insitution that provides benchmarks for completion and that those benchmarks allow you to get these ratings. Remember, you will be hard pressed, expecially the helicopter drivers, to find work if you do not have at least a CFI and 200...it's an SFAR thing.
I hope that this helps anser some questions and I wish all of the veterans luck in their endeavors to become aviators...and thank you for your service.
Concerning post 911 SB 3447: I read the VA website and there is some additional clarification worth mentioning. It appears that the VA has leveled the playing field for public institutions removing the fees cap. This means one state will NOT have a financial advantage over another!
I spoke with a couple of public colleges offering flight courses and they indicated that they were NOT accepting new students at this time. It appears that either schools are unwilling to further capitalize there programs commensurate to demand (Who can blame them with the cost of aircraft) or the students applying are in excess of the resources to accommodate the students.
In any case if you are currently in a good public program, count your blessings because it appears that acceptance into these programs will become increasingly more difficult in the weeks and months ahead.
It's BAD NEWS for private college students such as those attending ERAU. It's too late to change S3447 folks. It's time to strategize where we go from here.
The Bill has already been modified. Yes it ALREADY passed the House of Representatives, passed the Senate and was signed by President Obama last Tuesday.
Go to the the VA website at http://www.gibill.va.gov/post-911/post-911-gi-bill-summary/Post911_changes.html
Pay particular attention to the following:
Effective August 1, 2011
(I.E. Yavapai College)
"The Post-9/11 GI Bill will now pay all PUBLIC school in-state tuition and fees; this includes graduate training, etc."
(I.E. ERAU)
"For students attending private institutions of higher learning or foreign schools, the tuition and fee reimbursement is capped at the lesser of net out-of-pocket cost or $17,500 ANUALLY - however the Yellow Ribbon Program still exists.
1. Can the additional cost (beyond 17.5k annually) be covered with the Yellow Ribbon Program at a PRIVATE college? I.E. Will ERAU match funds with the VA allowing the helicopter flight program to continue?
2. Can the helicopter FLIGHT training be accomplished at a public institution like Yavapai and then transfered into Air Science degree at ERAU?
3. Will these public programs accept transfer students from privates such as ERAU?
I think those questions would receive better answers if directed toward your financial aid counselor at your academic institution. Check with them, I'm sure they can give you the information you're asking for better than we can here.
I just graduated from Yavapai College's AAS Helicopter Pilot Degree, and was able to use my Post 9/11 education benefit to pay for it. Upon graduation I have already been placed in the industry working as an instructor pilot at Guidance Helicopters. After the changes, under SB 3447, this opportunity is still available to other Veterans that are serious about getting their helicopter ratings. It may take a little longer to further my education, but at least I have the opportunity to be flying while I do it. Don't give up on pursuing your flight careers!
Can anyone get a straight answer on my previous post? I can't!
I just get, "don't worry about it!" or we are working on it.
The Bill IS AMMENDED and SIGNED INTO LAW BY THE PRESIDENT. It will literally take an ACT OF CONGRESS to effect a change. Damn straight, I'm worried!!!!!
Please post any information that you may have.
See link below for "ANSWERS" to "A Couple of Questions" post:
Arizona Aerospan: Answers to a "Couple of Questions": Flight Training & New GI Bill Concerns
If you look at the latest update on the VA website under Effective Oct 1, 2011 and then flight programs it states:
"Flight programs: Per academic year, pays the actual net costs for in-state tuition and fees assessed by the school or $10,000, whichever is less. This limit is applicable to flight programs at both IHLs and non-IHLs"
It also makes no mention of yellow ribbon under this provision. While it might be possible that this $10,000 is in addition to the $17,500 cap for normal tuition I don't think that this is the case. It appears to me that since ERAU is an IHL that if you enroll in their flight training degree program you will be limited to $10,000 a year, and if you look at the actual bill this amount is pro-rated so if you go to school 9 months out of the year you get $7,500. Any degree programs there that do not include flight training should still fall under the $17,500 cap.
In my opinion this takes ERAU or any other private college out of the running for anyone who plans to use the GI Bill.
http://www.gibill.va.gov/post-911/post-911-gi-bill-summary/Post911_changes.html
Sean.
Thanks for your post.
You saw exactly what I did initially. At first glance we did not correctly interpret the provisions. I had to Re-read the ENTIRE Bill.....twice!!!!!
Please take a second look at it closely. You will then likely agree that the posts above including the AVIATION NEWS post is accurate.
The 10k annual cap provision applies in October to all non-IHL (or non collegiate) programs. The 17.5 annual cap provision applies to Private IHLs (Private colleges such as ERAU) there is virtually no change to PublicIHLs (public colleges such as Yavapai)
Bottom Line is that if you want sufficient funding from the VA you will have to enroll in a PUBLIC college by AUGUST 1st.
Follow-up
Sean
I read your link on the VA wbsite and cross referenced the language in S3447. The key language here is "Flight Programs" vs degree programs. Flight Programs NOT leading to the issuance of a degree are capped at 10k regardless if it is delivered by an IHL or non-IHL.
Unfortunately for some, I believe you are correct about the 10k cap for flight training ONLY if it is not required as part of a degree.
Having looked over the recent publication on the GI Bill website, I feel that there might be a large error in the interpretation of Senate Bill 3447 which clearly defines flight prorgrams and degree programs. I expect that the interpretation is mistaken.
Because of this, it would seem that flight training needed for the completion of a degree program (i.e. Associate of Applied Science in Aviation Technology) that the flight training tuition and fees would be covered. However, flight training that is not required for a degree program (i.e. sport pilot certificate at the local community college) will be paid for by the VA at the published tuition and fee rate or $10,000, whichever is less. Futhermore, this recent interpretation steps on itself in defining effective dates that have NOT been outlined in the senate bill; which made these changes law.
Finally, I must suggest that all persons who are affected by this senate bill and the flight training associated with it, contact your VA Services Coordinator. Because no one really has a handle on this, we need some folks who can have a direct line to the VA to start drumming up some interest in these chance. Before much else gets around, I suspect that we will be trying to get in touch with the VA to ensure that this interpretation is incorrect.
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